Air (Lie)den part deux. Part 3 in a series.
Disclaimer- I’d like to just apologize in advance for the length of this post. It’s ridiculous, I’ll admit it. Thanks again to Zzip for providing me with a lot of research to work with. He’s a champ.
After my last post, Moorewatch Forums regular Fnork brought to my attention the fact that Moore has raised the bar in his war room. He’s added a second page which I hadn’t seen before Fnork sent me the link. He’s broken down his statements even further and provided even more quotes for me to chase down and review. In the previous two segments in this series, I had been using Moore’s 9-11 facts page from his War room which included rebuttals and brief quotes and links. In his new and updated rebuttal, Moore apparently takes a page from my playbook to dissect each paragraph line by line. ( He still omits things he said in the movie however)
So then, an even CLOSER look at Moore’s “proof”, as found in his War room:
The Timing of the Saudi Flights, ( and more), continued.
What the movie said:
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “In the days following September 11th , all commercial and private airline traffic was grounded.”
Moore’s “proof”
“On the morning of September 11th, there were 4,873 instrument flight rule (IFR) flights operating in U.S. airspace. As soon as Secretary Mineta was aware of the nature and scale of the terrorist attack on New York and Washington—that we were faced with, not one, but four possible hijackings, and several other rumors of missing or unidentified aircraft—the Secretary ordered the air traffic system shut down for all civil operations. Jane F. Garvey on Aviation Security Following the Terrorist Attack on September 11th, September 21, 2001;
Link
I don’t know if this “point” is worth arguing over any more than what we covered in part 2 of this series. . Technically, the statement is true, however, the movie’s statement does not state that in fact that it was *two* days. Airspace did open on the 13th of September, 2001. Moore attempts to kick the hell out of the ol’ straw men here. I call *irrelevant* on the whole issue. We’ve talked it to death to the tune of 250+ replies, so let’s just move on.
This is a setup statement that Moore will use later in his “thesis” ( as he’s calling it now).
What the Movie said:
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “The White House approved planes to pick up the bin Ladens and numerous other Saudis.”
Moore’s “proof”:
Fearing reprisals against Saudi nationals, the Saudi government asked for help in getting some of its citizens out of the country. National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12; link
“Now, what I recall is that I asked for flight manifests of everyone on board and all of those names need to be directly and individually vetted by the FBI before they were allowed to leave the country. And I also wanted the FBI to sign off even on the concept of Saudis being allowed to leave the country. And as I recall, all of that was done. It is true that members of the Bin Laden family were among those who left. We knew that at the time. I can’t say much more in open session, but it was a conscious decision with complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the FBI and the White House.” Testimony of Richard Clarke, Former Counterterrorism Chief, National Security Council, before The Senate Judiciary Committee, September 3, 2003.
“I was making or coordinating a lot of decisions on 9/11 and the days immediately after. And I would love to be able to tell you who did it, who brought this proposal to me, but I don’t know. Since you pressed me, the two possibilities that are most likely are either the Department of State, or the White House Chief of Staff’s Office. But I don’t know.” Testimony of Richard A. Clarke before the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, March 24, 2004.
In Moore’s “thesis”, specifically makes the case that it is Bush’s long relationship with the Saudi Royal Family that is the motivation behind the approval of these flights. It is specifically these connected dots that Moore uses to give us reason to question the President’s judgement on this issue. Now if Bush personally approved these flights, I would think that Moore has hit a home run here. However, despite repeated attempts, Moore has yet to show any proof of Bush doing this. The closest he came was in an excerpt from Richard Clarke’s testimony to the 9-11 commission, where Clarke says:
I can’t say much more in open session, but it was a conscious decision with complete review at the highest levels of the State Department and the FBI and the White House.”
Ahhhhhh, the White house. Doesn’t the President live there? Indeed he does, so Clarke must have been referring to the President in this statement right?
WRONG. Often in the press and government speak, the “white House” refers to the Executive Branch of Government. Okay, everybody knows that. But when double speak is required to back up a “thesis”, I guess Moore needs to seize every foothold possible.
To shed more light on this specifically, Let’s look at the 9-11 commission report on this incident.
“Second, we found no evidence of political intervention. We found no evidence that anyone at the White House above the level of Richard Clarke participated in a decision on the departure of Saudi nationals. The issue came up in one of the many video teleconferences of the interagency group Clarke chaired, and Clarke said he approved of how the FBI was dealing with the matter when it came up for interagency discussion at his level. Clarke told us, I asked the FBI, Dale Watson ... to handle that, to check to see if that was all right with them ,to see if they wanted access to any of these people, and to get back to me. And if they had no objections, it would be fine with me. Clarke added, I have no recollection of clearing it with anybody at the White House.”
In fact, Richard Clarke also later corroborated this finding in his interview with The Hill on May 26th , 2004 with the following statement.: here
“I take responsibility for it( the approval of the flights) . I don’t think it was a mistake, and I’d do it again.”
“It didn’t get any higher than me,” he said. “On 9-11, 9-12 and 9-13, many things didn’t get any higher than me. I decided it in consultation with the FBI.”
I realize this is somewhat of a retread of the my last article, however, I felt a need to overlap a bit for context, please forgive my passion about this. Unless Moore also wants to make the case that Clarke is also a decision maker who resides under the thumb of the Saudis, I’d say at the very least, the events as shown by the fact do not mirror the way Moore portrayed them in F911.
And so we move on…
The Movie says:
FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial planes carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country.”
(I don’t know if ANYONE has debated that Saudi’s never left the country at some point. The straw man definitely is going through the wringer.)
But then Moore adds this on his new War Room page:
NOTE: It should be noted that even though the film does not make the allegation, strong evidence has recently come to light that at least one private plane flew to pick up Saudi nationals while private flights were still grounded. Moreover, for nearly three years, the White House has denied that this flight existed. This was reported in the June 9, 2004 St. Petersburg Times article cited below.
And then Moore’s “proof”
After the airspace reopened, six chartered flights with 142 people,mostly Saudi Arabian nationals, departed from the United States between September 14 and 24. One flight, the so-called Bin Ladin flight, departed the United States on September 20 with 26 passengers, most of them relatives of Usama Bin Ladin. National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12; link
Note the first line of that last paragraph. AFTER THE AIRSPACE REOPENED!!! The Bin Laden Flight September 20th. How does this back up Moore’s “thesis”?? I honestly don’t think I’d have put that in Michael, it is in direct opposition to what you have told us:
Quote , Moore:
Private jets, under the supervision of the Saudi government - and with your(President Bush’s) approval - were allowed to fly around the skies of America, when traveling by air was forbidden, and pick up 24 members of the Bin Laden family and take them first to a “secret assembly point in Texas”
That one didn’t say anything about the Tampa flight, let’s try the next one:
It should be noted that the US Customs and Border Protection document released by the Department of Homeland Security under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004 lists 162 Saudi Nationals who flew out of the country between 9/11/2001 and 9/15/2001, departing from New York’s Kennedy airport, Washington’s Dulles, and Dallas Fort Worth.link
Go ahead and click on the link. It clearly shows the flight dates as starting on the 13th, not simply “between Sept 11th and Sept,15th. It also shows his mistake about the number of passengers. 162 vs 142. Anyway, how about that Tampa flight? Nope. Nothing there either, let’s try again:
For an official list of Saudi Passport holders (names redacted) who flew out of the country between 9.11.2001 – 9.15.2001, see US Customs and Border Protection document released by the Department of Homeland Security under the FOIA, Feb 24, 2004; link
Yep, those are definitely names, flew out after airspace reopened. On the 13th. We know that Moore, What about Tampa????
The St. Petersburg Times reported on Jun 9, 2004:
o “Two days after the Sept. 11 attacks, with most of the nation’s air traffic still grounded, a small jet landed at Tampa International Airport, picked up three young Saudi men and left. The men, one of them thought to be a member of the Saudi royal family, were accompanied by a former FBI agent and a former Tampa police officer on the flight to Lexington, Ky. The Saudis then took another flight out of the country.”
Ahhhhh, there it is, the 13th, after airspace reopened.
o Moreover: “For nearly three years, White House, aviation and law enforcement officials have insisted the flight never took place and have denied published reports and widespread Internet speculation about its purpose… The terrorism panel, better known as the 9/11 Commission, said in April that it knew of six chartered flights with 142 people aboard, mostly Saudis, that left the United States between Sept. 14 and 24, 2001. But it has said nothing about the Tampa flight… The 9/11 Commission, which has said the flights out of the United States were handled appropriately by the FBI, appears concerned with the handling of the Tampa flight.
So, the 9-11 commission couldn’t confirm this, despite “internet speculation”? Hmmm. I’ll go ahead and concede that this flight may have taken place. I’ve never seen the Administration publically deny this flight. Where are those quotes?
o “Most of the aircraft allowed to fly in U.S. airspace on Sept. 13 were empty airliners being ferried from the airports where they made quick landings on Sept. 11. The reopening of the airspace included paid charter flights, but not private, nonrevenue flights.” Jean Heller, “TIA now verifies flight of Saudis; The government has long denied that two days after the 9/11 attacks, the three were allowed to fly.” St. Petersburg Times, June 9, 2004
Okay, most of the flights were empty. I wonder why? How many people wanted to hop on a jumbo jet a few days after 9-11? In fact, I remember the situation being so financially dire for the airlines that we the people had to bail them out. But that’s beside the point, the flight described here certainly sounds like a paid charter flight. I have yet to see any proof that in the days after 9-11, pilots were offering free rides. Did the plane fly itself, or was the pilot paid? I won’t even insult you with my guess.
The Tampa flight probably happened. I only say this because of the situation at the time. The Saudis here had a good reason to want to skedattle. Consider this unfortunate reality in the days following 9-11:
For example the only Binladin to stay in the US after 9-11. Here is how he describes his life now
An interesting interview, must read.His life since has become almost unrecognisable: the man who loved jogging along the river has avoided any interactions with strangers who could “hear the name and get angry or upset or horrified”. He has stopped using his credit card and suspended his hobby of flying single-engine planes, for fear of the reactions he might get. “I’ve tried to keep a low profile and use cash as much as possible,” he says
Oh, ...and there’s more…
Some were arrested without charge and held in jail despite their rights to freedom. Others were sneered at, spat upon or even attacked.
Various reports have detailed how Arabic and Muslim citizens and residents of the United States and Canada—or people who simply looked like they could be from those groups—were denied their dignity and due process following the terrorist attacks on New York and the Pentagon on Sep. 11, 2001.
Snip
Days after terrorists flew planes into U.S. landmarks on 9/11, Usama Sultan, an Egyptian PhD candidate in computational linguistics at the University of Maryland said his students teased him about his name.
“They were joking. They asked when I’d be getting my pilot’s license.”
The 35-year-old teacher said he took the kidding lightly, but from that day he knew that people would never look at his name—which he now shares with the world’s most wanted man, Usama bin Laden—in the same way.
Snip
“The problem with rhetoric like this,” Najm adds, “is that it creates an us-versus-them scenario, so that Canadian Muslims will feel less and less accepted, and will feel more and more resentful.”“How will we craft a cohesive Canadian identity when we are being stereotyped like this? Who will feel welcome as a Canadian?”
James Zogby asked himself similar questions when the phones started to ring the day after the terrorist attacks. The founder and president of the Arab American Institute in Washington DC heard words like “all you Arabs should die”.
So, it would seem that the Binladins didn’t want to deal with that kind of abuse from Americans and Canadians. It makes sense to me. There are people out there who connect the dots , regardless of whether or not they are even in the same coloring book.
So, then we have determined that yes, Saudi’s including some relatives of Osama Bin Laden left the country a week or so after 9-11. They chartered jets to gather Saudis from around the US after airspace opened. Clarke takes responsibility for giving approval. Those facts I think we can all agree on.
But then Moore makes this point:
The Movie says:
.The FBI conducted “a little interview, check[ed] the passport.”
To which Moore offers this “proof”:
Last year, the National Review reported that the FBI conducted brief, day-of-departure interviews with the Saudis—in the words of an FBI spokesman, “at the airport, as they were about to leave.” Experts interviewed by the National Review called the FBI’s actions “highly unusual” given the fact that those departing were actually members of Osama bin Laden’s family. “They [the FBI] could not have done a thorough and complete interview,” said John L.Martin, the former head of internal security at the Justice Department. “The Great Escape : How did assorted bin Ladens get out of America after September 11?” National Review, September 29, 2003.
“Thirty of the 142 people on these flights were interviewed by the FBI, including 22 of the 26 people (23 passengers and 3 private security guards) on the Bin Ladin flight. Many were asked detailed questions. None of the passengers stated that they had any recent contact with Usama Bin Ladin or knew anything about terrorist activity.” National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, Threats and Responses in 2001, Staff Statement No. 10, The Saudi Flights, p. 12;
link
“I talked to several people who were with the FBI during the actual repatriation. And they told me there was a lot of back-and-forth between the FBI and the Saudi Embassy. And the Saudi Embassy tried to get people to leave without even identifying them. The FBI succeeded in identifying people and going through their passports. But, in many cases, you had the FBI meeting people for the first time on the tarmac or on the planes themselves as they were departing. That was not time for a serious interview or a serious interrogation.” Interview with Craig Unger, CNN, September 4, 2003.
However, Moore conveniently omits the next paragraph from the report. I guess he’s counting on folks not clicking that link he provided. Because, the thinking person who reads the next paragraph, the description changes greatly , and we gain a new understanding of the situation:
From the 9-11 Commission Report:
“The FBI checked a variety of databases for information on the Bin Laden flight passengers and searched that aircraft. It is unclear whether the TIPOFF terrorist watch list was checked. At our request, the Terrorist Screening Center has rechecked the names of individuals on the flight manifests of these six Saudi flights against the current TIPOFF watch list. There were no matches.
The FBI has concluded that nobody was allowed to depart on these six flights who the FBI wanted to interview in connection with the 9-11 attacks, or who the FBI later concluded had any involvement in those attacks. To date, we have uncovered no evidence to contradict this evidence.”
link
And if that wasn’t enough, let’s hear what Jamie Gorelick , 9/11 Commission panelist told the Boston Herald about Moore’s charge:
Fueling the ``Fahrenheit 9/11’’ controversy, members of the 9/11 Commission dispute filmmaker Michael Moore’s claims that 26 members of Osama bin Laden’s family were secretly shuttled out of the country while planes were grounded after the terror attacks.
``That’s not what we found,’’ commission member Jamie Gorelick said of Moore’s assertion that the Saudis were snuck out on a charter flight on Sept. 13 in violation of airspace restrictions.
Gorelick told the Herald that restrictions had been lifted by the time the Saudi planes took off that day and that the FBI interviewed 22 of the 26 members. The others were cleared by the agency of any connection to the attacks, the commission found.The commission’s findings have been hotly debated, with Moore saying they confirm his claims and detractors saying they prove him wrong. In the film, Moore suggests that the flights occurred with White House help when air traffic was grounded.
To prove his point, Moore mockingly says, ``Even Ricky Martin couldn’t fly,’’ a reference to the singer being stranded at an airport.But Gorelick, a Washington, D.C., lawyer, said the filmmaker chose his words carefully and distorted the facts. ``If you listen closely, it never says (in the film) that the planes left while the airspace was restricted,’’ Gorelick said.
Oh, so he didn’t exactly say that in the film? Then why did EVERYONE have that impression? Perhaps it’s because in the movie, the line Moore attempts to defend actually lies in the middle of this exchange:
NARRATOR: This is retired FBI agent Jack Cloonan. Before 9/11 he was a senior agent on the joint FBI-CIA al Qaeda task force.
JACK CLOONAN: I as an investigator would not want these people to have left. ... I think in the case of the bin Laden family I think it would have been prudent, hand the subpoenas out, have ‘em come in, get on the record. You know, get on the record.
NARRATOR: That’s the proper procedure.
JACK CLOONAN: Yeah. ... How many people were pulled off of the airlines after that coming into the country who were what, that were from the Middle East or they fit a very general picture.NARRATOR: We held hundreds of, ...
JACK CLOONAN: We held hundreds and I…
NARRATOR: ...weeks and months at a time.
(cut to Craig Unger)
NARRATOR: Did the authorities do anything when the bin Ladens tried to leave the country?
CRAIG UNGER: No, they were identified at the airport, they looked at their passports, and they were identified.
NARRATOR: But that’s what would happen to you or I if we were…
CRAIG UNGER: Exactly. Exactly.
NARRATOR: “So a little interview, check the passport, what else?”
CRAIG UNGER: Nothing.(cut to Dragnet song)
NARRATOR: I don’t know about you, but usually when the police can’t find a murderer don’t they usually want to talk to the family members to find out where they think he might be?
JOE FRIDAY: You have no idea where your husband might be? / Well if you hear anything let us know, will ya? / You willing to come downtown and give us a statement? / This gonna take a while? ‘You got the time.’ Mine’s worth money, yours isn’t. ... I asked you a question. ‘You’re gonna answer ‘em not ask ‘em.’ Now listen to me cop I pay your salary. ‘Alright, sit down, I’m gonna earn it.’
NARRATOR: Yeah, that’s how cops do it. What was goin’ on here?
SEN. BYRON DORGAN: I think we need to know a lot more about that. That needs to be the subject of a significant investigation. What happened? How did it happen? Why did it happen? And who authorized it?
JACK CLOONAN: Try to imagine what those poor bastards were feeling when they jumped outta that building to their death. Those those those young guys and cops ran into that building, never asked a question, and they’re dead. And their families’ lives are ruined. And they’ll never have peace. And if I had to inconvenience a member of the bin Laden family with a subpoena or a grand jury do you think I’d lose any sleep over it? Not for a minute, Mike.
NARRATOR: And no one would question it.
JACK CLOONAN: No, it’s right…
NARRATOR: Not even the biggest civil libertarians?
JACK CLOONAN: No, no.
NARRATOR: No one would question it.
JACK CLOONAN: It’s just, ya know, you get a lawyer and fine, counselor fine. Mr. bin Laden this is why I’m asking you; it’s not because I think it’s you’re anything, I just want to ask you the questions that I would anybody.
NARRATOR: Right.
JACK CLOONAN: And that’s all.
NARRATOR: None of this made any sense. (Marine One coming down to the White House) Can you imagine in the days following the Oklahoma City terrorist bombing President Clinton helping to arrange a trip out of the country for the McVeigh family? What do you think would have happened to Clinton if that had been revealed?
(cut to b&w scene, “Burn him,” Puritans holding torches)
Ohhhhhhhhhhh, That’s why. Because Moore makes the case very strongly in the movie, but he only seeks to defend that line he actually uttered. I get it, it’s easier that way.
So , as this may be the longest post in history, let’s recap a bit:
1) No Saudi’s flew during the flight ban.
2) George Bush didn’t approve the flights
3) 22 Bin Ladens were interviewed by the FBI.
4) They were screened against terrorist list.
5) They were rechecked again later and still no hits came up
so
Moore is wrong.
Richard Clarke says so
Jamie Gorelick says so
The 9/11 Commission report says so
and Paratrooper says so.
This issue is dead . Next issue, THE ELECTION!!!!!
*edit- Next issue- taking suggestions
RSS (Subscribe)